FCS046 How do we say your name?

Comments

[Kinoko]

Eh? I would think the Japanese have more problems with L than R. Besides, their R is like something between R and L (it's a very short front-tongue R). I guess "Karl" would need to be "Kaaru" or "Kaaruu".

[Guy]

Why does everyone insist on leaving comments trying to teach the author about Japan? This isn't a work of fantasy...he LIVED there! He KNOWS all about Japanese Rs and Ls! Geez, just let the man do his thing without trying to correct him!

[Asiaticfox]

Guy, calm down, please.

I do agree with Kinoko though. There are lots of Japanese words with the letter 'r' in them, and the r is pronounced fine. I can't off the top of my head think of a Japanese word with an 'l' in it. It's the 'l' that seems to be a problem.

Some of Japanese words are just Japanese pronunciations of English words. For example, 'plum' becomes 'parumu'. The 'l' has been exchanged for an 'r', which is easier to pronounce.

[Busy]

Of course we all know that he lived in Japan, but many of his readers (us fans) also lived there, which is why we relate to and enjoy this comic so much.

But everyone's experience in Japan is different. There is nothing wrong with reminising about our own experiences there when invoked by a comic strip with something similar happening to Karl.

Seeing today's strip reminded me about the Japanification of my own name, from "Lisa" to "RiSa" (リサ), and how much I hated how it sounded.

[Omniscia]

Haven't lived in Japan, but I have read about quite a few things about the phonetics. To continue the discussion about L and R, well, I've heard you can't really specify it as either because it's generally a mix of both. One guide I read described it as the Japanese making their 'R' sound by touching their tongue to their front teeth. As for which one you write, 'R' is more common, but it's mostly a matter of preference.

Has Karl's surname been said? I'm wondering if maybe they'll start referring to him by his surname. Or maybe they'll just make a nickname for him, though if that were the case, I have to wonder what exactly the nickname would be, among... other things.

[Khalid (comic Chef)]

Thanks, Omniscia. From my experience, the sound is between R and L. If I were to write that they could call him Karu or Kaaru, I don't think that it would sound like how a Japanese person would pronounce it. You really need the L sound in there too. My readers that live/lived in Japan will naturally give it the in between L and R sound.

Remember, I'm writing this comic strip for people that have never lived in Japan too. I want it to be as easily understood as possible. I hope you can appreciate my efforts! Thanks for your opinions.

[Ruth]

Hm, "Kinako" reminds me of the anime fans who think they know everything about Japanese and Japan just because they've seen fansubs. Anyone who has taken the language or natively speaks it would understand that Khalid knows what he's talking about.

[Asiaticfox]

Ruth, how do you know for certain whether 'Kinoko' is 'just some anime fan' or if she might actually be someone who has 'taken the language'?

Please, for the sake of being friendly, let's not try to defame each other here. This comment section is for all of the readers to comment on the strip. As long as nothing offensive is said (Khalid pointed out that we do have some younger readers, so we should certainly be cautious in that respect), then everything should be fine. There may be differences in opinion, which is only natural. The whole L and R issue might appear differently to the ears of different people. Kinoko and I were of one opinion, but it was merely how we saw (or in this case, heard) the issue.

I may not have lots of experience with the Japanese language, but I have listened closely to the pronunciation of Japanese words on a language instruction set that I happen to have, and it is what has lead me to my conclusion. Any further knowledge might change my outlook, but at the current time my position stands.

Thank you.

-Fox

[Guy]

Thinking about Karl's name got me thinking....

So in an upcoming installment, will Karl be offended when his co-workers add an affectionate suffix to his name that just happens to be a racial slur in the States?

[Zach]

I was just "Zakku" (ザック) the whole time I lived in Japan. I was never sure why, but no one ever referred to me a "<surname>-san", or "Zakku-san" for that matter.

We talked about it once, but never really came to a conclusion. They were just more comfortable calling me "Zakku".

[Guy]

I'd say they just liked calling you "Zaku" cause they watch a lot a Gundam!

[Busy]

QUOTE: "co-workers add an affectionate suffix to his name that just happens to be a racial slur in the States"

I'm from the California Bay Area, and I have no idea what Japanese suffix of affection you referring to that is similar to any racial slur in the states. (-san, -kun, -chan, -tan, ...)

In my case all of the other Japanese I worked with or did business with always just called me "Risa-san" orally and "Lisa-san" in e-mails and other personalized documents. I would always refer to them by their last name, also with the "-san" suffix. I absolutely never heard anyone call me or anyone in a work related situation use any other suffix.

[Guy]

Well geez, if I have to spell it out for you.

"Kun" is an affectionate suffix for boys...usually meaning only people that are well-liked will get the "Kun" treatment.

But Karl just happens to be an African-American, and "Kun" sounds strikingly similar to "Coon" which is NOT the nicest thing to say to a black person from the States!

I can just imagine his eyes bugging out of his head saying "What did you just call me???"

[Busy]

Thanks Guy for the reply. After many years in Japan, I've never been close enough to any Japanese to have them use a different suffix with me. I've never been called: -chan, -kun, -tan, ...; only -san. So I doubt they will use it with Carl.

Oh "Kun/Coon", I sort of get it. It sounds like a reference to the wonderful "Roots: The Saga of an American Family" novel and TV series by "Alex Haley" based on the true stories of the writer's ancestors, where the primarily main character is a captured Africa slave name "Kunta Kinte".

But I did not know that people would unfortunately make a decent character's name that was horribly victimized with slavery and make his name into an offensive term against blacks in the US.

The Roots novel was published in 1976. Was "Koon" an offensive term before them?

[Khalid (comic Chef)]

Hey! Stop taking my ideas! Seriously, I'm planning on bringing up the use of "kun" in Japan. When I started teaching English in Japan, I was told to use the word "san" after the girls last names and "kun" after the boys. As a black man from Georgia, this shocked me and I was uncomfortable at first using that term!

This will all come up when Karl starts teaching classes. In fact, it will probably come up several times. Just too good to ignore. You guys are too quick for me!

[mobiuszero]

HAHAHA Many Japanese hard to say my brother's name

[Busy]

I looked into it on Wikipedia and I was completely wrong. (My bad!) Coon has nothing to do with Roots and was a racial slur for more than a hundred years before the novel was written.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs#Coon
[(U.S. and U.K) a black person. Possibly from Portuguese barraco, a building constructed to hold slaves for sale (1837). Popularized by the song "Zip Coon", played at Minstrel shows in the 1830s.]

Sorry for being so ignorant. Growing up in my little isolated bubble on the west coast as a white California girl in the Bay Area, I never heard Coon used as a slur before.

Mind you, I never heard anyone in Japan use anything other than "-san" or "-sama" in a business setting. (One coworker did refer to his business mentor with -sama, since he revered him, but this was very very rare and only in private.)

[Walter]

I'm presently studying Japanese 101 in college and we've started on Katakana, which is used for words that are foreign to Japanese. Our teacher gave us the task of trying to spell our first names using the Katakana characters. Some of us had an easier time than others.

Personally I can feel for Carl as I have first name that has both a L and a R in it. I won't even go into the pain my last name will possibly pose.

[13yaroza]

I just want to say that I less then three this comic. Get it? <3? No? Really? -.- FINE. Anyway I have nothing to do with the above conversation. I really like the comic and cant wait for more! PS. How did they get on that subject? Seems random...ish.

[Chris Watkins]

Hey, at least Karl can get the cool alien name. My name sounds like chestnut vinegar :)